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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Ricimer
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At the end of WWII Balkan operations, 52 allied bombers raids were operated in support of the Yugoslavian partisan on the small town called Zara (or Zadar) along the coast. The town, laying on a peninsula 700 meters long and 400 meters width had some small extension along the coast Northward and Southward.

At the beginning of the WWII there were about 12.000 inhabitants. By the end of the operations the 98% of population was dead or dispersed all around the world.

The question is why? The town had a small harbour with a capability of a max of 1 ship no more than 4.000 tons. No road or railways capable to support the military operations inland. The military presence was about the same than any other village at the times: few military police, less than an infantry battalion, a couple of armed motor boats (max 100 ft.), etc. Politically there were no primary targets too, and the local industries were all based on the fishery and the liquors production.

I searched the archives but nothing seems to justify the massive bombings (abt. 100 kg / 200 lbs bombs each 10 sq. meters of land). Even the bombing reports refers to minor secondary explosions, and large fires among the civilian buildings. Nothing else. It seems the intelligence was operated by the partisans, but there is no evidence of any analysis by the Allied HQ.

Does anybody have any idea, document or info about the Zara raids?

dalma
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
trapdoor
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This is not entirely true. First, I think that 'official' number of raids was 72. Secondly, this was not done to support Yugoslav partisans, but simply as allied bombers went back to their Italian bases from raids on Austrian, Hungarian, Romainian, South German or whatever-their-primary-targets-were, they flew over Zadar and dropped whatever bombs remained in their planes on Zadar. Zadar was solitary Italian (and later German) enclave on eastern adriatic coast, and thus was ideal as 'dropping ground' for bombers on their way home to Italy. This explains relatively very high number of bombing raids on such a small and not important town. The city itself had no military importance whatsoever.

Of course, city of Zadar is (and was) much, much bigger than '700 x 400 meters' on the peninsula. I am from Zadar, I was born there, and lived there for 19 years. It was not such a small town at the time, and neither is today (70.000 inhabitants).

This is very much over-estimated. Zadar (or Zara, in Italian) was solitary Italian enclave on eastern adriatic coast between two wars, entirely surrounded by territory of Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Italian territory extended a bit over city limits, and remnants of Italian border bunkers are still in good shape on what are today Zadar suburbs. It is interesting to point that those very bunkers were used in '91. during war in Croatia, when Serbs and Yugoslav army came dangerously close to the city. When Germans and their allies attacked Yugoslavia in April of '41. some Italian units (Truppe di Zara) attacked from Zadar, finally advancing to Knin at the time Yugoslavia capitulated (after 12 days of very poor resistance).

I don't know the number of inhabitants before WW2, but I suspect that it was higher than 12.000. (Today Zadar has cca 70.000 inhabitants.) They were mostly Italians, or Dalmatians (Croats) that had no problem speaking Italian. After Italian capitulation in 1943. German army took the town. When Yugoslav partisans marched into city (November 1944.), most of Italian citizens fled by ships to Italy. They were not killed or terrorized in any way by Partisans, they simply fled, because of fear, and because they saw that the city will be annexed by Tito. Some Italians remained, and many families in Zadar have Italian family names. Interestingly - Italians that fled from Zadar kept the 'city council in exile' and are having regular meetings even today! I think that famous fashion designer Missoni was 'mayor of Zadar in exile' for some time, but I'm not entirely sure about this. To say that '98% of pre-war population was killed or dispersed around the world' is very much over-stated. According to Yugoslav data, Zadar in '48. had 12.000 inhabitants. This is same as your pre-war number.

You are again going a bit too far. Zadar harbour is bigger, and there were roads and railroads to inland. Of course, city was not at all important politically or economically or military, but it wasn't _that_ small and isolated.

Well, as I said, it seems that they simply dropped remaining bombs when returning to Italian bases from raids on primary targets in Austria etc.

Regards,

Oleg Mastruko
www.bug.hr - BUG Computer Magazine
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Heath Patrie
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'Foibes' in Istria and around Trieste and whatever massacres happened there have absolutely no connection whatsoever with Zadar (Zara) which was solitary Italian enclave in Dalmatia, cca 300 kms to the south. There were no war crimes or alleged war crimes or massacres done in the Zadar area that involved Italians as victims. Of course - if we don't count repeated allied bombing of Zadar as 'war crime'.

This is ridicolous. I remind you - it's the Allies who did the bombing, and you attribute alleged 'war crime' to partisans who - according to you - gave 'false intelligence raports'!

I repeat what I already said in one earlier posting: relatively high number of allied air raids on Zadar came as allied bombers went back to Italian bases from missions in Austria, Hungary and South Germany and dropped whatever bombs remained in their planes on Zadar. As the solitary Italian city on the eastern coast of Adriatic, and later taken by German army (and thus - enemy), and because of geographic position and (probably) weak air defences - Zadar was ideal for such raids.

Regards,

Oleg Mastruko
www.bug.hr - BUG Computer Magazine
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Vgtrzubx
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The death official score is 54 bombings (approx 800 tons of bombs, but I have the exact ammount for just 27 of them), plus the daily passage of a solitary fighter called by the inhabitants 'pippo', using its machine guns all around.

Secondly, this was not done to support

I already answered to you about your posting to Paolo Pizzi. Just approx. one third of the missions dropped on a secondary target. Pilot's reports and eyes witnesses refer to a SSW - NNE courses and, sometimes W - E ones for the largest part of the raids.

I visited the town to complete my studies, and right now you're right. I you wish I can exhibit the aerial photos of Zara in 1944, and you could confirm my data. The inhabited area out of the peninsula (700 m. x 400 m. still now) was from 15 to 100 m. along the North and South coasts. the

That's a mistyping as the exact number is 22.000

Right, the border was from 3 km. to 15 km.

Please refers to my posting in ref to your answer to Paolo Pizzo. I found an incredible ammount of documents saying something different. In the above mentioned posting I refer to the exact documents of court sentences to death for teachers, postmen, police officers, common civilians, by the 8th corpus military court.

He his still the major, the exiliated still meet once a year mostly to count the survived. To witness their links to their homeland, during the last conflict they raised founds to buy aids they sent to the Dalmatian polpulation. The aids were organized by Dr. Franco Luxardo, nephew of Mr. Niccolò drowned into the Zara bay with his wife by the Tito's forces. I've been in contact with Mr. Missoni and Mr. Luxardo to collect data. I found two men with a deep love for their home land and no political nor human wishes of revenge. Just one sad personal note, it seemed to me they were afraid their people's story was destinated to be forever misread and forgot because of the military and political events that followed.

Correct. A large number of inland inhabitants gathered to the coast in search of better life conditions. But in my documents I have not found any infos about which buildings they lived in. By the photographs analysis it's an underestimation to set at the 72% the distruction of the civilian buildings of the town.

In width it's a nice bay, but the sounding was poor. The 4.000 tons ship max. capability has been set by the Asburgic Navy (1914), Royal Italian Navy and Allied Intelligence reports (1942 - 46) I have consulted. The sole road useful for engine vehicle was a North to South coastal road. To the inland the roads disappeared after few miles. I do confirm, military maps (Italian, German, Yugoslavian and Allied) do not have trace of a railroad passing by Zara and serving the port. The only modern communication mean was the Zemonico airstrip, approx 6 miles East of the town, unuseful for anything bigger than a light plane because of the ground's characteristics.

12 months bombings, the count of deaths is impossible to keep (I have documents precisely referring something less than 600 civilians deaths, then just diaries notes (astonishing the resignation on them...) about 20, 50 or 60 or 100 more per raid. The daily visit of a fighter or a recon plane using to machine gun around. The pilot's mission reports. All these informations seem not to confirm your point.
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Vgtrzubx
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I wouldn't like to start an unuseful polemic about the victims. The question was just why the 54 bombings (and not 52 as I wrote), with over 800 tons of bombs. The pilots' reports tell about less one third of the missions were dropping on a 'secondary' target. The witnesses reports talk about a SSW - NNE course for the largest part of the raids. For this and all the rest of my posting I'm ready to give all the official documents list.

Even if not the purpose of my posting, I cannot agree with the statement about no Italian victims of Tito's forces in Zara, just because in my studies I found the following evidences:

Nov 10th 1944: Military Court of the 8th Corpus (partisans), pubblic notice posted up on the town's walls, death sentence for the 'people ennemies', list of 17 + 10 (italian names) (I've copy of the notice)

During the last months of the same year 100 civilian 'disappeared' and no trace of them was found. Same destiny for 49 - 50 police officers. The witnesses (even some among those that passed on yhe partisans' side) reported of a large number of Italians drowned into the bay. Among my documents I found almost always two names the owner of the Maraschino Factory (Liquor) Niccolò Luxardo and his wife Bianca.

Feb 7th 1945: the same court of the 8th Corpus annouces by the same way 15 more sentenced to death. (I've copy of the notice)

I still consider unuseful to keep on counting the death and/or deny, for political reasons, the evidences nowaday available to everybody into the military archives. I really would like to concentrate di research and the attention to the main question. Is it possible to drop approx. 800 tons of bombs on a 'town' of about 1 sq. kilometer, just because it's there? I have no trace of similar behavior in none of the other theaters.
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
JudMc
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You sent me a copy of the notice.

I must note, with absolutely no intention of hurting anybody's feelings, for the truth sake, that most of the names on the notice are not Italians. Many have Slavic names, and whether they served in Italian army or were civil servants during Italian rule is another question. Please, understand that I'm not trying to justify those shootings in any way, I'm just saying that they were not at all aimed at Italians, but at what Partisans considered 'people's enemies'. Also, many people on this list are from Arbanasi, as you surely know is Zadar suburb with inhabitants of Albanian origin (they were catholics that came fleeing from Turks in 17th century, I think) that were infamous for being very supportive of Italian rule, but they were not Italians in any way.

Whole Yugoslavia, nearly every city and village at those days was covered with similar 'public notices' and victims were of all sorts of nations, being accused for all sorts of crimes. Especially hated by Partisans were soldiers of Independent State of Croatia during the war, and those that served in German army. I can accept that 'foibes' in Istria were perhaps aimed particulary at Italians (I don't know much about that), but this shooting certainly wasn't as most of the names are Croats (or Slavs, if someone is more happy with this term).

I know about this. Luxardo was owner of biggest factory in Zadar/Zara and as such was very 'prone' to be hated by new partisan communist government, but it could be as well because he was 'capitalist' and owner of the factory and not because he was Italian. In fact - we may never know the true reasons for his killing...

I completely agree that counting of the dead is useless. I just tried to clear few details.

O.M.
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
kdanforth
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Partially correct. You should have noticed the end of the 'Slavic' names writing: they do not end with the 'c' having the little 'v' on the top, but with a -ch, which as you know is the ending for the Dalmatian family names (as per Dalmatian I believe to talk about populations living on the coasts and not emigrated from the inland). They were mainly from Borgo Erizzo and Cosali having Croats and Albanese origins. In the second half of the notice there is a list of name of persons sentenced because of their belonging to the 119^ legion. They were militians of the 'Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale' created in Zara as evrery where else in Italy by Mr. Mussolini. In my studies I've met a lot of Dalmatians having their names ending with a plai -c or -ch (i.e. Noncovich), able to speak few more than the traditional Dobro Yutro (Good Morning) in their alleged mother language.

It would be nice to understand and establish the difference between Dalmatians (I do believe Dalmatians at the times were all those families having been born and raised West of the Dinaric Alps). Most of the islands inhabitants, even keeping their Slavic language, where perfectly integrated into the Italian speaking comunity and officially Italians by 1918. To be considered 'people enemy' to have been on the side they believed to belong from can't be considered normal. It has to be considered too that Zara (at the times such was the toponym reported by the official documents and the maps in France, UK, USA, Germany, etc.), following the etnic disaster of the London treaty 04.26.1915 (when officially the Allies promised to the Italian Kingdom the sovereignity of Istria and Dalmatia, to unofficially promise the same 2 years later to Serbs in change of a support against Austria), at the end of WW1 and till the end of WW2, was considerated the strongest enclave of 'Italianity' into the area. One more 'detail' Italy was a winner of WW1 while Serbs and Croats had been operating into the opposite field as subjects of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. At the times London did not negotiate with Yugoslavia, just because it did not exist, but with the activists operating in exile (maily in Paris, France)

Strange change of mind, according to the direct e-mail I received from you, where you said:

...Yes, this is true, I know about that one. I thaught that this was an isolated incident. Luxardo's liquor factory was renamed 'Maraska' and is still very famous for it's cherry brandy 'Maraschino'...

I guess the largest part of us is suffering his scholarship and the education he/she received. I would be glad to keep on working even on this subject, looking for the truth. If this newsgroup will assist us, it should be important and historically correct to compare our knowledges and try to understand what is just propaganda and which were the facts on a documental base. 52 years by the end of the war should be enough to whash out the political bonds,even if I understand that these bonds have followed us till very few years ago.
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