7 years ago
irochka
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I don't know why. If I knew of a reasonable explanation I would tell you.

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7 years ago
lakid
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Well I'll put it bluntly. and bare in mind that I am about 60% certain that I am of jewish origin too. First of all the jews after their expulsion from Palestine formed very closely nit communities in Europe. Being very conciencous of their identity they didn't assimilate into the nations who accepted them on their territories ( Poland was until the XVIII century the biggest jewish refuge in the world). Further more they 'dared' to get rich and educated. They were competitors. Furthermore they were from nonxian religion in the time when religious identities were very strong. The became a very easy target for 'popular revenge' and ruthless politicians. Unfortunately HSS aren't very nice creatures in some circumstances. They start to hate easily and are often aggressive. Hitler just thought up a system of using this sentiment. That's why it was schoah and not a 'minor disturbance' in the history of the Jews. Remember that jews were not the first nation to be slaughtered (vide the Armenians during the I world war). And there is another thing Hitler thought that he would keep jews 'for ransom' and he could use it as a political argument. Unfortunately the schoah is very easily explain with psychology and sociology of HSS and there is no guarantee that it won't happen again . Marcin B.

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7 years ago
Hdkujrox
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This question does nor have a simple answer. At the risk of oversimplification, let me try:

1- The Holocaust had its seed in the anti-Semitism that had been endemic in Europe for centuries. It had been worse in some places (e.g. the pogroms in Russia and Poland) than in others (e.g. England). What were the reasons for the antisemitism? There were probably two: Fear and envy. Fear because the Jews were, and still are, different. Their religion is different. Their way of life is different. They keep themselves apart. They know that they are God's chosen people. Envy because Jews often were and are wealthy and intellectual, were and are members of the upper class. Why? Probably because they have always valued education and the mind highly; this led to development of the intellect, which had its outlet in excellence in commerce, industry, science and the arts.

2- Hitler's ideal German was not an intellectual, but a strong and tough warrior. His ideal state was Sparta, not Athens. His philosophy was social Darwinism: Let there be struggle, and the most fit will survive, thus leading to a stronger and better society. The Jews that he remembered from his Vienna days were not that way at all He remembered them as furtive and slovenly. He convinced himself that they were, therefore a threat to Germanism, and he was able to convince others, because he was a superb and mesmerizing orator.

3- After Hitler became chancellor in 1933, he had the political and police power to act on his ideals. He started with putting his political enemies into concentration camps. Then he eliminated those within his own Party that disagreed with him. The Jews were next. They had to be eliminated from Germany. Pressure was put on. Injuries occurred. Many emigrated. Many stayed because they had not the funds to leave, or because they felt that this too shall pass. But it only got worse.

4- The war brought increasing harshness and brutality into the picture. To expel the Jews wasn't enough any more. They had to be done away with. This new policy was crystallized at the Wannsee Conference, which laid the groundwork for the institutionalized murder of the Jews, now called the Holocaust. Six million died.

5- Did the Germans choose to kill the Jews? There were some seventy million Germans at the time, more or less. How many of these killed Jews? A thousand, perhaps more. They have been put to justice by now. How many Germans knew about the killings and did nothing about it? Many more, perhaps a hundred thousand. That still leaves many millions who did not know. I was one of them. So were my parents, including my father, who had been an anti-Semite all his life but was horrified when he learned about the exterminations at war's end. So, did 'the Germans' 'choose' that outcome? Hardly.

6- Why should we, today, keep the memory of the Holocaust alive? Because it has one big lesson to teach: Man has the capability to be a beast, especially if he find himself in an environment where bestiality is not abhorred. Each of us has within himself the seed for this bestiality. We must all of us, individually, take care not to nourish this seed.

7- Preoccupation with the Holocaust in order to find blame and prove innocence serves no purpose. Continued harrassment of 'the Germans' about the subject is prejudicial: Most Germans alive today were not alive during the Holocaust and could, therefore, bear no guilt for it. The German governments since the war have voluntarily, and with the consent of the people, paid compensations and have supported the State of Israel. Can there ever be enough atonement to satisfy all accusers? Does continued pressure not only keep open and raw a wound in the German soul that should long ago have been allowed to heal. As I have said in other posts, the guilty have long since died or been put to justice, but the shame will be attached to 'being German forever.' I put it this way: If your brother is a murderer, you are not yourself also guilty of murder, but you may be ashamed of him.

I know this does not answer your question, but that's the best I can do.

Heinz

'As hard as I try to be sensitive and politically correct, I can't avoid bumping my way into boorish opinions, thus offending those who are truly enlightened.' - Mike Royko

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7 years ago
bredkumanfirst
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I don't usually do this, but I endorse Heinz's analysis. It is original, it is true in its details, is the most credible explanation I've read, even though it may not have been the cause. I'd like to add that 1930's social science tried to emulate the exactness of the natural sciences. There were studies to predetermine criminal dispostion by the shape of a skull. A bump in the right place would indicate 'murderous' inclinations, for example. There was great tendency to find true and final solutions to a social problem, like in natural science which had just made quantum leaps in the prior 50 years and was known to be effective. Also, it is noteworhty that a chicken farmer ran the concentration camps (Himmler), like he would a chicken farm; assets to be managed and disposed off when the bottom line interfered. It is a chilling reminder that the human mind is forever flexible and changing and often not far from insanity. If Himmler had to do the killing, it would have never happened (speculation, not history). Which may be another lesson, if we let the leaders do the fighting and the dirty work, there'd never be any. I am only sure of one thing, and that is that it was NOT a communal conscious decision by the German population. Very few knew, and the rest wouldn't believe it if they heard a rumor.

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7 years ago
cihotefol
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Many Germans chose to persecute the Jews or were willing to tolerate that persecution. They may not have started out with the idea of extermination.

It's like somebody talking a bunch of people into rolling a heavily laden railroad boxcar toward the edge of a steep incline. Once it starts downhill on the tracks, the odds of the people who started it rolling stopping it, especially at perceived personal risk to themselves, is at best slight. This is especially true when there are people they don't like tied to the tracks at the bottom of the hill.

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7 years ago
lakid
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Interesting. What is HSS? So my message won't get bounced for being too short a reply, I'd also like to ask what a 'schoah' is. I could look it up in a dictionary but would also like to understand the context.

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7 years ago
Quatre
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As I recall from reading Toland's 'Adolf Hitler' 15 years ago, he couldn't find any clear cause or abrupt beginning of Hitler's hatred of the Jews. But the Jewish family doctor was unable to prevent Adolf's mother from dying of a disease (cancer?), and Toland wondered if Hitler resented that.

I think here that a (long) quotation from Gitta Sereny's 'Albert Speer: His Battle With Truth' is instructive, both in terms of indicating how closely held the secret was of the annihilations, and of how even such key perpetrators as Himmler were horrified by it.

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7 years ago
trapdoor
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A major factor in this might be that jews traditionally (several hundred years ago) had been forbidden to own land, and thus could't work as pessants. One of the factors in the Danish jews being better integrated in the general population than in most of Europe might be that one of our kings couldn't repay the money he had loaned from jewish bankers, with land as security - he then more or less had to allow jews to own land in Denmark - much earlier than most other parts of Europe.

The reason jews were so successful at banking was, that it was considered sinfull to demand interests on loans by the church, so by violating the norms, that all other europeans had to live by they became wealthy.

Interestlingly Hitler signed a petitition to reinstate a fired jewish artist or professor (I forgot witch) and his platoon commander in WWI, who commended him for the Iron Cross was jewish.

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7 years ago
Mathefblow
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How many? All of the 70 million, more or less, that I mentioned? Please give me a number.

Who are 'they?' Again, all 70 million? The '1000 or more' that I referred to?

Who are this 'bunch of people?' Do you mean that Hitler, Himmler, Streicher and a few others 'talked' the 'thousand, perhaps more' into pushing? I would agree with that. But, to follow your analogy, many saw it rolling and got out of the way, the vast majority of the 70 million were rolled over by the boxcar; they did not push-start it; they had no way of braking it. And quite a few got under the wheels: They are now called the Resistance.

Heinz

'As hard as I try to be sensitive and politically correct, I can't avoid bumping my way into boorish opinions, thus offending those who are truly enlightened.' - Mike Royko

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7 years ago
Heath Patrie
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[Snip of excellent summation of causes] of these killed Jews? A thousand, perhaps more. Mr. Altmann,

Thank you for that excellent summary. It is the best one page explanation of the background to the Holocaust I have read.

My disagreement comes from your low estimate (IMO) of the number of killers. It had to be much more than 1,000 because of the number of diverse units involved: four Einsatzgruppen (3,000 men) followed the Wehrmacht into the Soviet Union in '41 to kill Communist commisars and Jews, Police units in Poland routinely shot Jews and Poles who helped Jews. Reserve Police Battalion 101 is estimated to have killed 38,000 Jews from July '42 to November '43 and deported another 45,000 to Treblinka where most would die. A Police Battalion was about 500 men and about 20 battalions were in occupied Poland in 1942-1943 during the height of the Holocaust. That's about 10,000 men. [From: _Ordinary Men_, Christopher R. Browning, HarperCollins Publishers, 1992]

Darrell

Luck has three flavors: bad, blind and dumb

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7 years ago
Arnorld
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Sorry for the use of those words I sometimes forget that many ppl don't know them. HSS is Homo Sapiens Sapiens in other words we and Schoah or Shoah is 'the massacre in hebrew' it is commonly used refering to the Holocaust.

Marcin B.

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5 years ago
davef99
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All throughout History,MANY countries hated the jews,and expelled them!!!!!!
Why?
Because their own Talmud teaches Jews are superior to all other races,and that it's ok to rob, steal,rape,and kill any non jew,(including Christians!)
But why would MANY countries actually expel ALL of them????
Because there were MANY documented cases of some Jews killing young Christian children,(all throughout history!!),as early as 900 AD, and as late as the 20th Century!! HUNDREDS of cases!!! These heinous crimes would almost always occur just before Passover,(or our Easter time!) These Jews were accused of trapping and torturing little Christian children under (some under 7 yrs. old!),by cutting them,blood letting them,and even crucifying them similar to Christ!!! The bodies would have marks on the hands and feet,and even piercings in the side mimicking Christ's death! Also,The victim's body was usually drained dry of all it's blood!! Why? Jews have always considered blood the "seat of the soul",hence why they slice a cow by the throat,and drain ALL of it's blood! They also are notorious for smearing lambs blood etc.,and believe partaking in the blood of their enemies would free there homeland,Palestine..(Some would actually drink the blood of their children victims in wine,or mix it in their unleavened bread!)
However,The Jews religion forbid burying theses little "Gentile Pigs", so they usually discarded them in a dump,(but for this reason the bodies were always discovered!) Then the crimes were often solved by witnesses,or the way the killings took place.If you don't believe me,type in "Jewish Ritual Murder" into any search engine! SEVERAL cases of dead children with the same brutal signs of torture show up!Even Jesus himself said their Jewish forefathers were murderers,and didn't want their "Blood Sacifices!
The Jews themselves said of Jesus's death "Let his blood be on our heads and that of our children!"

Getting back to Hitler, he HATED Jews because they comprised most of Communiist Russia,i.e., the Bolsheviks!!! Hitler always mentioned the Bolshevik rebels when talking about Jews,(Lenin and Trotsky
were both Jews!) It was them who killed Nicholas the *Christian* CZAR and his whole family!!!
It was also the Bolsheviks Jews in Russia who murdered 25 million Christians in Communist Russia!
They were often tortured in large dark chambers, with blood trenches,etc.! They were sometimes nailed to a ceiling and died of exhaustion,or their eyeballs stabbed out,dismembered,etc.! When asked to denounce Christianity,if a Christian women said no,a fellow Bolshevik soldier would throw her baby in the air,and another Russian soldier would catch it with his rifle bayonet!
The jews talk how evil Hitler was,but the Red Russian Revolution made the Holocaust look like a picnic!!!

Lastly, Charles Lindbergh's baby was coincidentally killed around March,the same time just before Passover! The Jewish press blamed it on a poor German fellow who was electrocuted,but actually it was another case of Jews killing a Christian baby!! You see,the Jews wanted to start the Federal Reserve Bank system,and Lindbergh's father was against them!! Can you say the jews sent the Lindbergh's a message??
Also,the Jews would LOVE for us non Jews to kill each other in wars,like the one in Baghdad, and in Afganhistan! During 911,the Jewish owner of the Twin Towers collected 5 BILLION dollars in insurance money,because the buildings were losing money! Also, Jews were warned that day not to show up for work!!!

David (Ashamed of my Jewish first name!)

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5 years ago
tp3
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Mm Interesting Question there.

Good evinning people my name is tp (Short for thapelo). I am a History Major student at University of Western Cape. I am chllenged to adress the topic to my first year tutorial group of history majors.

In our context we are rather focusing on Rwandan Genocide vs Holocust.


As to why Hitler Killed the Jews? I have couple of submitions here.

1. Jews by the time Hitler came into power were the historically rich people than any race on earth, though we might argue that Indians were already advanced.

2. This is evident with kind of business they had, like itis speculated, most of grmans were not well educated by the time, jews always out numbered them with ideas and economic sustainability.

3. When we look at some of the tackticks the germens used, they burned the literature of the jews. they dstroyed ther businesses, which was their strong hold.

4. If you can mke a small research on the leadership fo Jews community i bet you it is better than that of Mahadma Gandi & Mandela combined.

5. Thus i argue that besides all this points i have made the killing of the jews by the Germans was influenced by the fear of the unknowen.

I apologies for the mini thesis, but i encourage you all fellow & Future Historian to keep on searching for the Answears thats what drives me. See you all soon

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5 years ago
copper
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thapelo, welcome to the forum

A few remarks here:

1. When the "fact" that Jews "were usually rich people" is mentioned - please bare in mind that Jews were NEVER (also before they developed skills surviving economically and becoming good in it as well) admitted to join non-Jewish profession gilds. Those gilds (for explanation click here) downright denied Jews right to become members (and thus many professions other people held were forbidden for Jews).

2. There is no answer possible to the folly of a madman. That he succeeded in having the support of a people is shown in a movie in where an American teacher decided to 'experiment' with his pupils and in the 'experiment' everyone participating lost control. The movie about this experiment is called:

The Third Wave (please click) . . .

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