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Posted 2 Weeks, 5 Days ago
Grogs1
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Obviously Sweden was officially neutral during the war and supplied Germany with iron ore, but what else did Sweden do during the war? Did it protect refugees, return them, supply information to either side? Does Sweden have any dirty little secrets about it's role in the conflict?

Jim Bailey
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Posted 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
juel
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To be fair, it was the Swedish cruiser GOTLAND that reported BISMARK on the move and this report 'somehow' got to the British embassy who reported it to the RN if I have it right. Also there were passenger flights UK / Sweden used to get that high priced scientist out of Denmark to the UK ? I think they turned a blind eye to quite a bit that helped us, but I don't know how it weighs in the balance. Of course both sides' belligerents must resent a neutral so this may still colour historical perspective?Regards.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
limerpharm
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Yes, there were some 'dirty little secrets'. Sweden allowed the transport of supplies to the German troops fighting in Narvik, and German navy personnel (now without vessels) returned to Germany via Sweden while fighting in Norway was still going on. Later this traffic of German troops through Sweden would increase, and depots with German war material, guarded by Germans, existed in northern Sweden. Apart from iron ore, Sweden exported also ball bearings, special steel and tools to Germany. Apart from German coal, she also accepted stolen gold as payment.

Internally, Sweden built internment camps for Swedish communists, sterilization of Gypsies and others was common practice and the fatality rate of mentally ill people was suspiciously high (50 - 100% increase) during the war years.

OTOH Sweden helped the Norwegian resistance and several thousand Danish soldiers were equipped and trained in Sweden. About half of the Norwegian Jews and almost all Danish Jews found protection in Sweden. In the spring of 1945 the Swedish Red Cross saved with its 'White Busses' about 30 000 prisoners from German concentration camps. The Swedish ambassador Raoul Wallenberg saved 4 500 Hungarian Jews.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
JudMc
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Sweden most likely has its so called dirty little secrets, but it had to try to stay out of the war, just like Switzerland, for example. In the end, a country is responsible for keeping its own citizens safe - and it is easy to critise war time decisions 60 years afterwards.

So the whole time from 1939 to 1945 was pretty much tightrope walking for Sweden.

Sweden traded with Germany, allowed German troop transports to Norway, interned both German and Allied planes. They accepted to take care of tens of thousands of Finnish children during the crisis and as far as I know were taking care of refugees, too.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 3 Days ago
dslonline
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(snip)

Don't recall any specifics, but wasn't Sweden the refuge of choice for Danish Jews? Unlike Switzerland, they didn't turn them back as I recall.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 3 Days ago
lakid
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Phil dave gower < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it > wrote in article <68kgpd$ This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it >...
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Posted 2 Weeks, 3 Days ago
trapdoor
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Just look at the map. Sweden was completely surrounded by German (or Finnish) controlled land. Also there is nothing whatsoever wring for a neutral country to have trade with a country that is at war.

I really have to feel envy for Swedes on what they did to keep their country out of the war. For long after the war the gap in standard of living between Sweden and Finland was huge.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 2 Days ago
mortimer
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<<snip>>> Thanks for posting the statistics, something that is often not done here.

This is something that many forget - hindsight gives us the obvious answer that Hitler was the bad guy and had to be stopped - but in 1938, especially, this was not obvious. <<snip>>

Do you know more about this? I have never heard of Kurt Gerstein, and just looked him up in 'The Holocaust' by Leni Yahil and found a couple paragraphs on him - apparently a paradoxical character.

Many say this, and many believe it. In my readings, I cannot see that as the truth. The Allies got word of the holocaust in bits and peices, but could not imagine it to be true. Often, they felt the Jews (who were the usual source of such information) were merely playing up the information to get sympathy.

The Military, esp. the air forces involved, wanted nothing to do with such operations. In their minds, the right move was to strike at Germany where it hurt, to not be sidetracked with such unnecessary missions, and that the best salvation for all occupied nations was to win the war. In retrospect, we can see the horror and understand the error, but at the time, these officers made what they felt (and what was apparently) the right decision. Everyone wins by quickly defeating the Nazis - anything that interferes with that goal is wrong.

<<snip>>

Yeah, and Coventry, Dachau, Nanjing, Bataan, Rotterdam, Auschwitz...

And I surely hope you don't wish that there was a different winner!
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Posted 2 Weeks, 2 Days ago
lakid
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How interesting. Could You please tell, how did Germany help Finland during Winter War? Germany and Soviet Union had signed a treaty in which Finland was given to Soviets and Germany's policy towards Finland was governed by that treaty.

British aid to Finland? I'm not really sure about this, but Finnish air force did have about 10 Hurricanes and some Blenheims, which might have come as military aid (or maybe they just had been bought).

The only country that did really help Finland was Sweden. They sent us some 7000 - 8000 volunteers (can't remember actual numbers) who fought in Salla. However, the official policy of Sweden was strictly neutral, and Sweden did deny the Western Allies' plan to send troops to Finland via Sweden.

Markus Tamminen
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Posted 2 Weeks, 2 Days ago
dfc2soft
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Entire German armed forces were taken as POW's after the war. Do no blame Sweden for that.
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Posted 2 Weeks, 2 Days ago
Grogs1
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Gerstein was most certainly a paradoxical character. The only biography that I have come across on him was called, 'A Spy for God'. I can't remember the authors name at this time. Well worth the read, and very well documented as I recall.

Gerstein was a member of the Confessional Church, which contributed a fair number of the members of the anti-nazi and anti-Hitler movement inside Germany. In the early thirties Gerstein was a youth group leader for the church, he became very wary of the nazis when they began to assimilate such groups into the Hitler Youth movement. He became an avowed anti-nazi after his cousin was murdered in the first of the nazis extermination campaigns, when mentally ill and people with disabilities were put down during the leadup to the 1936 olympic games.

Gerstein decided that the best thing he could do was to infitrate the nazi establishment to 'bear witness' to such things. He subsequently joined the SS and also became a diarist. He largely insinuated himself into a position of maintaining clean water supplies and fumigation.

After the nazi 'final solution' began, he saw for himself and was very disturbed by the nazi technocrats and their technologies of mass murder. He placed himself at great personal risk in hs attempts to ensure that this secret was made known to the world, including informing diplomats, church ministers and anyone else that he could. Otter was unsure whether to believe the almost incoherent story of grief , crime and madness that Gerstein unfolded to him.

Gerstein had a tanker containing prussic acid (Zyklon condemned and buried by claiming it was leaking. Somehow he alone could smell this odorless and colourless gas. He was given quite a bit of credit for this amongst SS circles, after all one could not have people other than the intended victims hurt by such things. This gave Gerstein the impetus to have further shipments similarly condemned.

Living a double life had it's toll on Gerstein, he suffered from quite extreme hypoglycemia, and appeared to live largely on sugary foods. His descriptions of the extermination camps were Dantesque and even his closest friends did not always believe him, he felt compelled to take even greater risks to ensure that (what became known as) the holocaust was not hidden from the world. He tried to personally see, tho not take part in, the very worst of what was perpetrated.

At wars end, Gerstein was imprisoned by the French and indicted by the War Crimes Tribunal. Gerstein made a written confession of all that he had seen, at great length and detail to his inquisitors. He was not at first believed. Gersyein suicided in his cell during a depression caused by his hypoglycemia. Only after his death was due recognition given to Gerstein. His admissions were used extensively during the war crimes trials.

I'm quite sure that for many, even to this day, Gerstein actions as a 'witness' are as reprehensible as those of the participants. I've always felt that had Gerstein survived he would have spent his life in prison, with the likes of Albert Speer. I doubt he would have been executed as were many of the worst war criminals, with whom he was acquainted. Gerstein was a man who had lost his innocence by virtue of seeing the worst of what humans can do to other humans.

The last time I looked the only wwwebsites on Gerstein were limited to displaying information only in the French language.

Regards
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