Hitler

Good evening all.

Excuse the ignorance, but my question is, what is the general consensus, what happened to Hitler ? Was his body found ? and where ? Any information would be gratefully appreciated .

Thanks

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British intelligence commissioned historian Hugh Trevor Roper to look into this in 1945, published in book form a year or two later: finding that he shot himself, his body was burned in the bunker garden and buried, but later recovered in part by Russian troops. Later biographers (up to Ian Kershaw recently) do not disagree in any important detail. There were 20 years ago various rumours of a jawbone, tooth, etc. etc. preserved in the Kremlin, in which no one has shown much interest

There's a documentary that crops up on the History channel every so often which describes how the remains of Adolf and Eva Hitler, Joseph and Magda Goebbels and children, and Gen. Krebs were recovered and identified in Berlin, then transported first to a Berlin suburb and temporarily interned. They then were transported to Magdeburg where they were repeatedly buried and exhumed, then finally exhumed, cremated (wouldn't only bones remain after 25 years?) in 1970. In Moscow there is a skull fragment which is supposed to be Hitler's. Supposedly some DNA testing has been conducted and compared to known surviving Hitler relatives, and, yes, it is consistent. So likely the fragment is genuine. What I can't figure out is WHY the Soviets wouldn't come forth with the knowledge that they had Hitler's remains. Since Berlin radio proclaimed in the evening that Hitler went down fighting with German troops defending the capital (instead of truthfully reporting his suicide), it'd seem that they'd want to confirm that the monster was indeed dead to the world, AND, if there was forensic evidence of the suicide, that he did NOT go down heroically. The only possible thing, IMO, is that the condition of the remains was so poor that positive identification was impossible. Though an open-pit cremation, using 200 litres of gasoline, would consume much of the flesh, it would likely leave the skeleton intact. So the entry and exit holes from the 9mm round that Hitler used to shoot himself (in the vernacular, he 'ate his gun' should still be evident. As for using dentistry, the SMERSH team did round up a dental technician that had worked with Hitler's dentist, and she drew the mouth configuration which is supposed to match the remains. I'll make an observation about that. If Hitler shot himself through the mouth, unless he shoved the pistol deep inside, there's a good chance that either the discharge or the recoil would knock out some teeth. And maybe that's the problem. Again, I'm neither a dentist or a forsenic expert, but it's likely that the Hitler remains weren't in good enough condition to make a positive ID. That, coupled with Stalin's paranoia about Hitler escaping, could explain the Soviet's reluctance to come forth with their findings.

DLS

P.S. Go Kings...

This might be the 1 hour-long documentary entitled 'The Search For Adolf Hitler' which first aired in 1997 on the Discovery Channel program entitled 'Time Traveler'.

This would be Berlin-Buch, where the 1st Belorussian Front had set up a pathological lab. This was the location of the Hitler autopsy.

The bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler were repeatedly buried and exhumed along the way on the trip from Berlin to Magdeburg, but once in Magdeburg, they were buried in a courtyard at 30-32 Klausenerstrasse in that city. They remained buried in that same spot for 25 years until exhumation and complete incineration was done on the bodies in 1970 at the direction of the KGB.

If that fragment is genuine, and has been found to positively be a piece of the skull cap from the left side of Hitler's skull, then there is proof Hitler used his Walther PPK or PP pistol of 7.65 mm caliber to shoot himself in the right temple. The outside of this piece of skull cap in Russian archives shows an exit bullet hole that is consistent with that caliber. This would tend to disprove the eyewitness account of Artur Axmann and the study conducted by Hugh Trevor-Roper when they both postulated that Hitler had shot himself in the mouth instead of the right temple.

The Soviets initially did come forth with the information that they had found Hitler's body. On 23 May 1945 SMERSH reportedly sent a report by courier from Marshal Zhukov to Stalin which contained a summary of the autopsy and investigation into Hitler's death. The details of the autopsy and subsequent odontological ID had been passed on to General Dwight D. Eisenhower by Russian officers who confirmed to Ike that a cremated corpse, which had been dug up outside the Fuehrerbunker and examined by Russian pathologists, had been identified as almost certainly Hitler. Again on 6 June Zhukov's staff officers assured Ike's staff that Hitler's body had been discovered, exhumed, and scientifically ID'd. On this same date the Russians held an informal press conference in Berlin at which war correspondents from the U.S., Great Britain, and France were present. An officer from Zhukov's staff disclosed details of the search for Hitler and the finding of the body and subsequent identification.

However, on 9 June 1945 the Russians reversed their position and categorically denied finding Hitler, and stated that it was their belief that Hitler had not been located and was probably still alive.

One of the RSD personnel who was on duty at the time of the burning stated that the burning of Hitler's body was not so severe as to turn the body into ash. This was SS-Rottenfuehrer Harry Mengershausen, who stated that, after the flames had died down, the face of Adolf Hitler was still recognizable, even though badly charred, and that the body was still intact. He also stated that there were only 2 or 3 empty army petrol cans directly in front of the bodies and the Bunker door. He surmised that much of the petrol had been absorbed into the soft, sandy ground.

As each army petrol can held a maximum of 20 liters of fuel, the most petrol that possibly was poured on the 2 bodies was 60 liters, not 200 liters. With Katyusha rockets, mortars, and shell fire hitting the Chancellery and adjoining grounds, it is very possible that RSD personnel did not want to stand in the open garden area and be targets for advancing Russian gunners as the RSD men stood over the bodies, pouring 10 full cans of petrol on them.

As for Hitler using a 9 mm pistol, his personal pistols were Walthers of 7.65 mm and 6.35 mm. Hitler used the 7.65 mm pistol to shoot himself, as aforementioned. The Walther 6.35 mm pistol was used as a reserve backup in case of a misfire by the larger caliber pistol. Hitler had placed the 6.35 mm pistol within arm's reach on a small table in front of the sofa where he and Eva Braun-Hitler had seated themselves.

Dental assistant Kaethe Heusermann and dental technician Fritz Echtmann were both rounded up and forced to draw sketches of Hitler's teeth and dental bridge.

One of the disadvantages Hugh Trevor-Roper had when he did his investigation of the death of Hitler was that he was unable to interview virtually all of the Fuehrerbunker Germans that were credible eyewitnesses to many key events. Those that had not been killed attempting to break out of Berlin were captured by the Russians, immediately held captive, and were not allowed to speak with any of the Allied powers. Thus, Trevor-Roper's belief that Hitler shot himself in the mouth came from one key source, Artur Axmann. It is the belief of many that, when Axmann observed blood on both temples of Hitler, it was the entrance and exit wounds produced when Hitler shot himself in the right temple and the bullet exited the left temple, not from extreme pressure that blew out the temples when Hitler shot himself in the mouth as Axmann believed. To further complicate the matter, Axmann even admitted not seeing any trauma to the back of the head which would suggest that a gunshot to the mouth would be a through-and-through wound out the back of the head.

There were many Fuehrerbunker Germans that did see the trauma in the area of the temples, and many noted seeing the actual entrance and exit wounds produced when Hitler took his life at approximately 1530 hours on 30 April 1945.

Tim Watkins

The question is not an ignorant one. Much speculation has abounded about what happened to Hitler's body after he committed suicide in a small ante-room in the Fuehrerbunker on 30 May 1945.

His body was found approximately 2 meters from the emergency exit to the Bunker in the garden of the Chancellery. It was found approximately 3-4 days after the end of the fighting in Berlin by the 79th SMERSH unit assigned the task of investigating the whereabouts of Hitler after the Russians had taken Berlin.

Hitler's body had been placed in a shallow shell crater after being placed there by members of Hitler's bodyguard detail at approximately 1540 hours on the aforementioned date. Petrol was poured on the bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler and set alight. Several of the Fuehrerbunker Germans had told the Russians that his body was buried in the Chancellery garden; a search then uncovered the bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler.

Hitler's charred body was placed in a wooden shell crate and transported to the Russian pathological lab in Berlin-Buch, set up by pathologists of the 1st Belorussian Front. On 8 May 1945, the same day Europe celebrated V-E Day, the Russians, led by Chief Forensic Pathologist Dr. Faust Sherovsky and Russian Anatomical Pathologist Major Anna Marantz, performed an autopsy on Hitler's body. The Russians found that the body tissues of Hitler contained trace amounts of compounds of cyanide, and concluded that Hitler had poisoned himself. The autopsy also noted that portions of Hitler's skull cap was missing from his skull.

However, most of the jawbone with teeth were intact in the skull of Hitler. A dental assistant, Kaethe Hausermann, and a dental technician, Fritz Echtmann, were found in Berlin and discovered to have significant information relative to Hitler's dental bridge and teeth, as they had both worked for Hitler's dentist Doctor Hugo Blaschke. They were separated and held captive by the Russians. Hitler was positively ID'd through odontological comparison of the drawings from memory of Hitler's teeth and bridge made by Hausermann and Echtmann to the partial jawbone, bridge, and intact teeth in the skull. These drawings were a perfect match.

After the post-mortem examination, it was determined that Hitler would be moved along with the 79th SMERSH unit to their new headquarters in the city of Magdeburg. There, the bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler were buried in an unpaved area at 30-32 Klausenerstrasse in that city. The bodies remained buried until 1970 when the KGB, who had assumed responsibility of the site from SMERSH (Soviet Military Intelligence), made the decision that the bodies would be unearthed for the last time, completely incinerated, and disposed of so that no parts or portions of Hitler could be used to raise Hitler to the status of martyrdom.

This is partly due to Stalin's innate and paranoic secrecy, and partly due to the fact that the USSR wanted to make sure than 'Hitler's grave' did not become a rallying point for post-war Nazis. The British & US had the same objective in mind when they burnt the remains of executed war criminals in the crematoria at Belsen and Dachau and threw the ashes into lakes and rivers.

I think it is rather fitting that the site of the Fuhrerbunker today is a children's playground and nursery.

Why didn't the Russians simply bring the bodies back to Russia and leave them in the Kremlin as 'war trophies' ?

That would seem the most likely use for them instead of being carted and reburied by the SMERSH group.

where are hitler's remains today?

(snips)

> Now Stalin is hearing and reading 2 different reasons for Hitler's

This whole story (and I wish I could remember the wannabe bestseller that propagated it) is based on a false premise. The KGB knew that Hitler took large amounts of cyanide and arsenic-containing compounds because they had his mad doctor's records, salvaged from the bunker. The initial pathologist did speculate that Hitler may have taken poison, but by June at the latest Stalin knew conclusively that Hitler was dead and had shot himself.

Zhukov was moved because Stalin would not tolerate any figure with an independent power base or popularity. His downfall (and that of many others) had nothing to do with Hitler's body parts.

I said that Stalin *had* innate and paranoiac secrecy, which is perfectly true. That secretive and paranoiac tendency manifested itself in the concealment of many facts, including the Soviet possession of Hitler's remains. Try to read the posts.