Corsair vrs German Planes

Anyone have some accurate numbers as to the kill ration of the Corsair vrs any Luftwaffe combat aircraft? I know the French flew a few...but did anyone else?

Thanks in advance...

The French did not fly any F4Us during WW2 - French use of the Corsair was all post-war.

The British flew considerable numbers of the Corsair but only a very few against the Luftwaffe - mostly as escorts for a couple of attacks against the Tripitz. As I recall, off the top of my head, the 'kill ratio' was pretty much equal but so few aircraft and so few kills were involved on both sides that the 'kill ratio' was probably statistically insignificant.

No doubt had significant numbers of the F4U actually engaged in combat against the Luftwaffe, they would likely have kicked butt.

But, that would likely have been more directly related to the superior training of allied pilots and the greater numbers of allied fighters at that stage of the war than any basic intrinsic superiority of the F4U over late model German fighters.

The Me-262 would, after all, have pretty much -toasted- any Corsair up through the Dash Seven, all other things being equal. The 'D' model Fw-190s were certainly at least equal to the best Corsair under most conditions.

Cheers and all,

Those FRENCH Corsairs were post-war!!! Maybe they were downing a few Lufthansas....

The British Fleet Air Arm flew Corsairs, IIRC from the UK, but I do not know if they ever came to blows with the Luftwaffe (aircraft, that is).

Gee Bill, I dunno if I agree with any of the above. The -4 and -5 Corsairs were damn fast. It the 262 trys more than one turn, he will bleed enough speed that these late model F4Us will be all over him. The 262 accelerates like a bus and getting away won't be easy.

As to the Fw-190D: It may have been close against the F4U-1. However, put the Dora up against the late war F4U-4 and it's no contest. The -4 is 20+ mph faster at all altitudes. It climbs at a rate (4,250 fpm) that is 30% greater than the Dora. The -4 can match it in roll rate, easily out-turn it, and the split-s is suicide against the Corsair. As a dogfighter, the -4 was the best of the Corsair line.

My regards,

C.C. Jordan

The Planes and Pilots of WWII online magazine http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/ http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/ A member of the WWII Web-ring. Honor and remember the WWII veterans.

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Hello 'C.C.Jordan' Until now I have never heard of the Navy Corsair flying in combat agst Nazi airplanes. Can you tell me what USAF in Europe or the Med. they were used? Thank you, Irwin

'As a dogfighter, the -4 was the best of the Corsair line.'

To wit, I comment, thusly:

Even though we know that F4U's, neither USN nor RN, never did tangle with the Luftwaffe, I'm inclined to agree with your statements with regard to aircraft performance in any such hypothetical, combat type encounters. For further consideration ...

Since certainly these planes couldn't be flying themselves, who would be doing the flying? 'Average' pilots? The 'best' from either side? How much experience are we talking about and where was it acquired over how long a period against what opposition? How would you measure their experience levels to achieve some sort of parity?

How about 'Rookies' who have just completed their training? How much training? Luftwaffe training circa 1944 vs USN training of the same period? I don't know about the Luftwaffe, but by 1944 USN VF pilots were accumulating close to 500 hours, in type, before final assignment to a combat squadron. I don't think the Luftwaffe could match that.

Are they fighting one-on-one or using the standard maneuver elements of their respective organizations?

While in a one-on-one engagement one might think that the odds might, and its a very small might indeed, tend to be skewed to the advantage of a Luftwaffe pilot of equal skill or training, I don't think it would be a cake-walk ... one mistake and he's had it. I think probably the best the Luftwaffe pilot could do would be to not get shot down himself ... that is, he might be able to get away, but he wouldn't be able to score. I don't think that one could presume that a USN pilot would just go roaring in, guns blazing, twisting and turning to get on the other guys tail and, in the process, throw out all or forget all his training, indoctrination, and practice. From my, oh, so long ago, reading, Luftwaffe pilots were very good at the one-on-one, zero to low deflection type attack. Unfortunately for such practitioners, that is exactly what an trained USN VF pilot would want them to do ... that would be that one mistake the Luftwaffe pilot would be most likely to make. Further, in the event of a one-on-one, all things being equal, encounter, I would predict that the USN's concentrated training and practice in high deflection gunnery tactics would probably settle the encounter in the USN's favor.

I would also suspect that the USN standard, two sections of two planes each, division would eat up any similar number of planes flown by Luftwaffe pilots of equal skill/training ... different training, different tactics, different philosophies. The USN pilots could just go into a beam defense weave and wait for their shots ... a tactic for dealing with enemies with superior performance and/or numbers. Worked more than well with F4F's against A6M2's, no reason why it wouldn't work with F4U's against anything the Luftwaffe was flying. It was drilled into the USN fighter pilots from early in their training that one-on-one was a big NO NO in situations of uncertainty ... for the most part, they believed it ... and, for the most part, they survived to tell the story. In order for this hypothetical combat to transpire with the respective pilots in their best performance mode, for the USN VF types that means flying in teams offering mutual defense capability. I'm not sure that the Luftwaffe had this mode of operation as throughly indoctrinated into their tactics, though I'm more than willing to be proved wrong.

I don't think one can judge or guess the potential outcome of such fanciful encounters by simply looking at the performance features and statistics on the aircraft involved. Pilot skills, training, and tactics have just as much, if not more, to do with the final outcome.

regards,

[snip]

By 1944, the Luftwaffe had no 'safe' airspace in which to train, and there was every chance of some Allied combat vet finding any LW rookie on his *very first* flight.

And, if that happened, there was a very good chance that the rookie was not going to make it to flight two.

Meanwhile, the Americans could train in Texas, or Kansas or where ever, and there was not much chance of getting zoomed and boomed by an FW-190 or Me-262 there. Nor was there much chance of bombing raids distrubing the American rookie's sleep at night, or killing them.

I suppose that the British had to train at home, but even Britian was safe for training by then.

Under those circumstances, there was not much doubt about the eventual outcome, no matter what kind of planes the Germans came up with, pilot shortages alone were eventually going to get them.

Henry Hillbrath

Since, as others have pointed out, no Corsair-vs-German fighter combat took place, one might gauge it against other fighters that did. In Corsair : The F4U in World War II and Korea by Barrett Tillman it is stated that when American Corsair and Thunderbolt pilots hassled with each other off the east or gulf coast of the US, the Corsair was clearly superior up to 15,000 feet. Above 20,000 feet, the Thunderbolt would have the edge due to its turbosupercharger. Tillman also points out that Corsairs beat Mustangs in the Soccer War.

David Smith

Ever hear of FDR refer to Canada as the Areodrome of Democracy?

131,553 aircrew were graduated out of Canada. It was called BCATP

If I did, I was very young at the time.

<g>

Sounds more like something WSC would have said. ' Aerodrome?'

But, now that you mention it, I do recall that there was pilot training in Canada.

Henry Hillbrath

Besides the training bases run by RCAF, there were a number of bases that were operated by the RAF. I do not know if the RAF total aircrew were part of the 131,553. One RAF base that I think that I remember was Carberry[?].