Canadian and German War crimes in Normandy

I know that they are not. But they are proof that the enemy would use the bombing of friendly civilians and troops for propaganda, as you just did. It is political dynamite, as you indicated with Caen. It doesn't matter who is to blame. All the French and Allied soldiers know is that the bomb bays opened up over their heads and homes. That's all they need to know. You just demonstrated, with your example of Caen, that German propaganda radio can use such examples to turn friendly troops and civilians against the four engine strategic bomber crews. Bomber Command bombed Canadian troops in Normandy for 70 minutes through a complicated boo-boo. The soldiers were, needless to say, bitter. Tactical bombing with mediums in army support is a specialty, as is long haul strategic bombing with heavies. At any rate, Ike got his Lancasters. He said if he didn't he would 'simply have to go home.' Obviously, Overlord had to be given every support. Ike and Monty were thoroughly pleased with the efforts of Bomber Command in support of the Great Crusade. As it turned out, intelligence reports were very wrong. French bombing casualties were kept to a minimum and the Transportation Plan was judged a success.

You must be looking at the Normandy area. My uncle went to Aachen, Germany for the Transportation Plan, not an area attack, 24/25 May, 1944 on Lancaster EE 193 and they lost 5.7% of the force. And after D-Day, he went on long hauls nowhere near Normandy to bomb rail yards. Dijon, Orleans. Revigny-sur-Ornain is a French town in the Meuse department situated on the Ornain river some 240 km due east of Paris. For the Germans in 1944 it was a vital rail link to the Battle of Normandy. Bomber Harris ordered his men to destroy that rail yard. With strict orders not to bomb with anything less than *precision*.

On the night of 12/13 July, 1944 Harris sent 100 Lancasters to Revigny. They arrived on target, but were ordered not to bomb because of poor visibility. 10 of those Lancasters were shot down over France. 3 more crashed in England. 2 others had been badly shot up.

So, on 14/15 July, Harris ordered 106 Lancasters back to Revigny. Again, they reached the target, but were ordered not to bomb. 7 more Lancasters were shot down over France.

On 18/19 July for the *third* attempt, Bomber Harris ordered 109 Lancasters back to Revigny. This time they plastered it. There was a certain amount of 'collateral damage'. Some bombs were fused for up to six days. 24 more Lancasters were shot down over France. 22%

The 59 survivors of the 41 Lancasters landed in German occupied France. The French sufferred *brutal* retaliations for the help they gave these men. When you see photos of GIs liberating that area of France, the emotions were entirely genuine.

Dirk Lorek:

In April 1944, Sir Hugh 'Boom' Trenchard, the father of the RAF ( Harris was his disciple on strategic bombing ) visited my uncles station at Elsham Wolds and others of One Group. One Group prided itself in carrying the heaviest bombloads to the Reich. I knew of Trenchards visit, but I did not have a book to cite. Now, I do:

See The Nuremberg Raid by Martin Middlebrook. Page 97 Flight Sergeant M C Coughlan RAFVR 103 Sq Elsham Wolds, One Group ( now sadly deceased ) states ' Inquiries revealed a light bomb load and a heavy petrol load - ergo a bloody long trip. Those characters with more wind than courage went sick if they could get away with it - and they quite often did. Frankly, the general feeling was one of quiet dread following Lord Trenchard's remarks. He has visited our airfield and in all solemnity warned us that our expectation of life was to be greatly reduced due to the fact that as all-out effort was to be made against the Reich'
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/missile/423/ index.html

This is a website devoted 103 and 576 Squadrons. Rob Davis is also an Elsham Wolds expert. They are very keen to set the record straight on this subject. The crews knew very well that their time on is earth was not expected to be long.

' Harris bounded up on the platform and his very first words were, ' Most of you people won't be here in a few months. ( Harvey: That got our attention ) We are about to begin a series of raids that will demand the best from all of you. We know there will be tremendous losses, but it has to be done. You have all done a splendid job, but the real test is still before you. We must beat Germany to her knees.' The direct honest way Harris had answered brought a roar of approval from the crowd, and he went down in our books as a man you could trust. ' ' Boys, bombs and Brussel sprouts,' 1981 by Doug Harvey, RCAF. pg 71-72. http://www.achq.dnd.ca/awards/hart.htm

'The Dancing Navigator' by Jack Harding, RCAF. I know him personally. http://www.achq.dnd.ca/awards/harding.htm ISBN0969342004 There were only two squadrons at Elsham Wolds. 103 and 576. Jack was in 103 and my uncle Bill in 576. http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/missile/423/ index.html 'This was it. After all the training. We were posted to 103 Squadron, Elsham Wolds, Lincolnshire and were about to become part of Bomber Commands cutting edge. I had heard that there hadn't been a single crew finish 30 trips in over 2 years, that it was a real 'hard-luck' outfit. We were duly deposited on the door step of a large Nissen Hut that already contained two other crews. In a few minutes someone shouted 'Transport!' and they all slowly trooped out. About an hour later we heard them start up and shortly after, take off. Eventually they were gone and all was quiet. Next morning we awoke to find the tiny fire was out. An elderly Sergeant had entered quietly and had begun to pick up personal belongings of the other two crews. He told us that both crews had failed to return and that it was his job to collect their effects. We came to know him as 'the undertaker.' It looked like I would never leave this place alive.' pg 26-27 'All about the room that I slept in, on the bare wooden walls, other aircrew, now long missing, had meticulously scratched, or pencilled their succession of sorties plus their names, rannk, targets bombed and dates. Without exception, they were all unfinished as if the writers had had suddenly been stilled. Some had as many as 17 to 18 trips, others only 4 or 5. Though they were near to my bed, I tried to avoid examining this reord of the dead, nor did I list my own trips, for fear I would join their ranks.' pg 35 'Out own squadron losses continued to mount. Not a single crew had finished their 30 trips in the 4 months that we'ed been there. I felt bewildered by the onslaught, the endless flow of young men around me. Crew whos faces I couldn't put names to. I had an intense 'live for the present' attitude. We had descended to the level of the murdering Hun, torching their cities one by one. Fighting fire with fire. Nothing, absolutely nothing, would bring me to the point of breaking.' pg 49-50.

with survivors of Bomber Command, I would say that Jack's account is fairly representative.

'Massacre over the Marne' also describes the times very well.

'Fugitives from the law of averages' Casualty rates of only 4.0% meant that only 13% of crews would survive in Bomber Command.

Are you saying that the outbombed inhabitants of Caen did not cheer the entering British forces because they had listened to Goebbels? You are showing signs of desperation

Well, I'm not looking at the tour of your uncle to determine the average loss rate of BC. But I was talking of the whole pre-D-Day campaign. It included places as distant from Normandy as Ghent, Le Mans, Orléans, Tours and Aachen.

Below is a list of all the major raids (> 100 aircraft) against railway yards during the 1944 transportation campaign (both pre- and post D-Day). I compiled it from Middlebrook's Bomber Command War Diaries. For those who do not care to read the whole list, here is a summary:

Total no of sorties: 17 179 Total no of bomber losses: 435 Avg loss rate: 2.53% Total no of reported civilian casualties: 3 411* Total no of raids: 84 Avg no of civilian casualties per raid: 40.6* Percentage of successful raids: 67% Percentage of inconclusice raids: 13% Percentage of failed raids: 20%

*The number of actual casualties is probably a bit higher as it can be assumed that not all were reported.

The symbols under 'Outcome' mean + successful (accurate) raid +/- inconclusive (partial accurate) raid - inaccurate or aborted raid Numbers indicate reported civilian casualties

Bombers Bombers Date Railway yard involved lost Outcome 6/7 Mar Trappes 261 0 + 7/8 Mar Le Mans 298 0 +, 31 13/14 Mar Le Mans 213 1 +, 48 15/16 Mar Amiens 132 3 +, 18 16/17 Mar Amiens 122 0 +, 18 23/24 Mar Laon 131 2 -, 7 25/25 Mar Aulnoye 176 0 - 26/27 Mar Courtrai 211 0 +/-, 252 9/10 Apr Lille 228 1 -, 456 9/10 Apr Ville-neuve-St-Georges 215 0 +, 93 10/11 Apr Tours 180 1 + 10/11 Apr Tergnier 157 10 + 10/11 Apr Laon 148 1 - 10/11 Apr Aulnoye 132 7 +/-, 14 10/11 Apr Ghent 122 0 +, 428 18/19 Apr Rouen 273 0 + 18/19 Apr Juvisy 202 1 + 18/19 Apr Noisy-Le-Sec 173 4 +, 464 18/19 Apr Tergnier 163 6 - 20/21 Apr La Chapelle 247 6 + 20/21 Apr Ottignies 189 0 + 20/21 Apr Lens 168 1 + 22/23 Apr Laon 169 9 + 26/27 Apr Villeneuve-St-Georges 203 1 +, 29 27/28 Apr Aulnoye 217 1 + 27/28 Apr Montzen 136 15 +/- 30/1 May Somain 134 1 - 30/1 May Achères 120 0 + 1/2 May St-Ghislain 129 2 + 1/2 May Chambly 112 5 +, 5 6/7 May Mantes-La-Jolie 141 3 -, 54 8/9 May Haine-St-Pierre 115 9 + 10/11 May Courtrai, Dieppe, Ghent,Lens,Lille 478 13 +, 48 11/12 May Boulogne 127 2 -, 128 11/12 May Hasselt 126 5 - 11/12 May Louvain 105 4 +/- 12/13 May Louvain 116 5 +, 160 12/13 May Hasselt 107 7 - 19/20 May Boulogne 138 0 +, 33 19/20 May Orléans 118 1 + 19/20 May Amiens 112 1 - 19/20 May Tours 113 0 + 19/20 May Le Mans 112 3 + 22/23 May Le Mans 125 1 + 22/23 May Orléans 120 1 + 24/25 May Aachen 426 25 +, 259 27/28 May Aachen 162 12 +, 167 27/28 May Nantes 100 1 + 28/29 May Angers 118 1 +/-, 254 31/1 Jun Trappes 211 4 + 31/1 Jun Tergnier 111 2 + 2/3 Jun Trappes 124 16 +/- 6/7 Jun Achères, Argentan, Caen, Château-dun, Condé-sur-Noireau, Coutances, St-Lô, Lisieux, Vire 1007 11 +/-, 312 7/8 Jun Achères, Juvisy, Massey-Palaiseau, Versailles 317 28 + 7/8 Jun Forêt de Cerisy 112 2 + 8/9 Jun Alencon, Fougères, Mayenne, Pontabault, Rennes 458 3 + 9/10 Jun Étampes 108 6 -, 133 10/11 Jun Achères, Dreux, Orléans, Versailles 413 18 + 11/12 Jun Évreux, Massey- Palaiseau, Nantes, Tours 311 4 + 12/13 Jun Amiens, Arras, Caen, Cambrai, Poitiers 633 23 +/- 14/15 Jun Cambrai, Douai, St-Pol 316 4 - 15/16 Jun Lens, Valenciennes 214 11 + 17/18 Jun Aulnoye, Montdidier, St.Martin-l'Hortier 298 1 - 22/23 Jun Laon, Rheims 211 8 + 23/24 Jun Limoges, Saintes 203 2 + 27/28 Jun Vaires, Vitry 214 4 + 28/29 Jun Blainville, Metz 202 20 + 30/1 Jul Vierzon 118 14 + 4/5 Jul Orléans, Villeneuve 282 14 + 5/6 Jul Dijon 154 0 + 12 Jul Vaires 153 0 - 12/13 Jul Culmont, Revigny, Tours 378 12 +/- 14/15 Jul Revigny, Villeneuve 242 7 +/- 15/15 Jul Châlons-sur-Marne, Nevers 222 3 + 18 Jul Vaires 105 2 - 18/19 Jul Aulnoye, Revigny 253 26 + 20/21 Jul Courtrai 302 9 + 26/27 Jul Givors 178 4 + 31 Jul Joigny-La-Roche 127 1 + 10/11 Aug Dijon 124 3 + 11 Aug Douai, Lens, Somain 439 1 - 11/12 Aug Givors 179 0 + 18/19 Aug Connantre 140 0 +

Dirk